Welcome to the weekly Perfume Chat Room, perfumistas! I envision this chat room as a weekly drop-in spot online, where readers may ask questions, suggest fragrances, tell others their SOTD, comment on new releases or old favorites, and respond to each other. The perennial theme is fragrance, but we can interpret that broadly. This is meant to be a kind space, so please try not to give or take offense, and let’s all agree to disagree when opinions differ. In fragrance as in life, your mileage may vary! YMMV.
Today is Friday, May 19, and we are back from our Bermuda holiday. Sigh. It was so beautiful and relaxing. Luckily, I had the foresight to take yesterday and today off work also, so I can ease back into regular routines and hold on to some of the vacation vibe a bit longer.
Last weekend, we had a fabulous visit to The Bermuda Perfumery in St. George, home of Lili Bermuda fragrances, and we had tea with our friends in their garden. The next day, Mother’s Day, I was served a lovely breakfast by my family and was “given” the Lili Bermuda fragrance I had chosen the day before: Bermudiana. I had tried Mary Celestia, whose back story intrigued me, but the fragrance wasn’t as interesting as the story, and it didn’t seem to last on my skin.
I was able to do more reading than usual on this holiday, and I read more of Bermuda’s early history. I had known before that it was first inhabited by English sailors whose ship, the Sea Venture, on its way to re-supply the struggling English settlement at Jamestown, Virginia, had been blown far off course by a hurricane and shipwrecked at Bermuda. Apparently the true story of this adventure provided Shakespeare with the inspiration for “The Tempest”. What I hadn’t fully realized before is just how desperate the conditions at Jamestown were, by contrast with the plentiful lushness, safety, and beauty of Bermuda. No wonder there were a few mutinous uprisings during the ten months that the crew and passengers of the Sea Venture were on Bermuda — many of them didn’t want to leave their newfound paradise for a settlement they already knew was in trouble — insufficient supplies, attacks from Native Americans, disease, etc.
On our way home, I picked up another Lili Bermuda fragrance in the duty-free shop: Pink. It is a very pretty floral, and I look forward to getting to know it better. I’m counting it as a supplemental Mother’s Day gift, lol! Speaking of Mother’s Day, I was very touched by the number of local people who wished me a happy Mother’s Day while just passing by on the lane that led to the beach. Bermudians are famous for their old-fashioned manners (you do NOT get on a bus or request help or information at a counter without first greeting the person with “Good morning”, or “Good afternoon”), but this was next-level courtesy.
I’m already planning some more “perfume tourism”; I will tag along with my husband on one of his work trips to London this fall, and we hope to take our family to France next summer, as a delayed graduation/anniversary trip (we were supposed to go in the summer of 2020). A new “Perfumer’s Garden” is about to open at Versailles, sponsored by Maison Francis Kurkdjian, and it looks gorgeous. Gardening AND fragrance — two of my loves, together!
Welcome to a monthly collaboration new for 2023! Portia Turbo of Australian Perfume Junkies and I had so much fun doing “Scent Semantics” with some other fragrance bloggers in 2022 that we decided to launch TWO regular features as a new collaboration this year. The first, which we plan to post on the first Monday of each month, is “Notes on Notes“, in which we choose one note and write about it however the spirit moves us; last month’s Note was on galbanum. This second feature is “Counterpoint“, in which we ask ourselves the same handful of questions about a single fragrance and post our separate thoughts on it, on the third Monday of each month. We’re still experimenting with format, so comments on that are welcome too!
This month’s Counterpoint fragrance is Jean Patou’s Joy (we shall ignore the imposter Dior launched in 2018 after acquiring the name and the brand). Jean Patou was one of the great designers and couturiers of pre World War 2 Europe, with his own couture house. Joy was launched in 1930 at the outset of the Great Depression, apparently so that M. Patou’s haute couture clients could still enjoy something created by him even if they couldn’t buy his dresses any more. The true creator, of course, was the perfumer; in this case, Henri Alméras.
Joy was famously promoted as the “costliest perfume in the world”, which was probably a marketing ploy but also reflected the high quality and cost of its ingredients, including absolutes made from jasmine and roses from Grasse. It was also meant to compete with Chanel No.5 as a luxury perfume. They share some qualities and notes, but each is distinct from the other, and instantly recognizable to many.
Jean Patou’s Joy; image from Portia at Australian Perfume Junkies
1. How did you first encounter Joy, and what was your first impression?
Old Herbaceous: I first tried Joy after I had gone down the rabbit-hole of this fragrance hobby. I knew it was one of the 20th century’s most legendary fragrances and that my perfume education would be incomplete if I didn’t try it. I found a tester of the eau de toilette at a very reasonable price, so I took the plunge and bought it blind.
My first impression was kind of “meh.” It was okay but I didn’t like it as much as the Chanels I already had, for example, or some of the more exciting new fragrances I was trying. It felt a bit old-fashioned, more than the Chanels did, and I couldn’t recognize its separate notes. As my nose became more educated, though, and I was trying more different kinds of fragrances, I came to like Joy better.
Portia: Honestly I have no memory of first smelling Joy by Patou. It seemed to be around in my childhood. It was definitely work by my Mum at some point and by various Aunts and friends Mums. There is no one specific image or memory I can conjure of my early encounters though.
When I started buying vintages I was so unaware of exactly how it should smell I sent a couple of samples around the world for confirmation and bought samples from Posh Peasant for comparison. So I’m taking my first vintage splash bottle as if it was the first time I smelled it. The only memory I have of that was being overwhelmed by this extraordinary scent. Eye-rollingly gorgeous stuff, I think I bought about a dozen bottles so I’d never be without it again, mainly vintage parfums and a couple of those 45ml EdT or EdP.
2. How would you describe the development of Joy?
Portia: Today I’m wearing both the vintage EdP and vintage parfum. I’m not sure exactly the years but the picture might give you an idea.
Opening is sharp white flowers, aldehydes and a swirl of ylang. It’s rich, plush and sumptuous. I know Joy is supposed to be rose and white floweer but the roses take a far back seat on the bus for ages before they start to become a serious contender. Even when they do make their play it’s only as a backup not the main event.
What I do smell as we hit the heart is fruit. Not that modern super sweet candy-ised fruit but that vintage tinned fruit salad. Yeah, it’s sweet but more robust, less headache inducing.
There is also a lovely, stemmy green note that could be hyacinth and it borders on torn twig. It’s verdant but also bitter and gives a lovely counterpoint to the bouquet and fruit.
Hiding deep below is also a little growly tiger and breathy, sweet jasmine.
As the fragrance heads towards dry down, the woods and animalics become more pronounced. Not dirty or ass-ish but smoothly skin-like, me but so much better.
Old Herbaceous: The notes listed for the original Joy are: tuberose, rose, ylang-ylang, aldehydes, pear, and green notes. The heart notes include jasmine and iris root. The base has notes of musk, sandalwood, and, in the vintage, civet. The version I have is the eau de toilette and it dates to 2016. Fragrantica lists this version’s notes as: Top notes — Bulgarian Rose, Ylang-Ylang and Tuberose; middle notes — Jasmine and May Rose; base notes — Musk and Sandalwood.
I think there are still some aldehydes in the opening, even if no longer listed, to give it some lift. There’s a pleasant soapiness to Joy that I associate with aldehydes; and I think they are the cause of so many people feeling that Joy is old-fashioned. I smell the ylang-ylang more than I do the other floral top notes, and then the jasmine arrives. It isn’t overpowering but it is very evident, much more so than the rose notes. I don’t smell any iris, root or bloom, at all, so that may not have become part of the modern EDT. It’s not quite as abstract a flower as Chanel No.5, but it is in that same vein. Even in EDT format, Joy has good longevity and sillage. A little goes a long way, given how dominant jasmine is. The final stage of this modern Joy on my skin is all soft sandalwood and white musk, like expensive soap.
Jean Patou’s Joy eau de toilette
3. Do you or will you wear Joy regularly? For what occasions or seasons?
Old Herbaceous: I don’t think I’ll wear Joy regularly, but that’s mostly because I now have such a large collection of fragrances that there are only a few I would say I “wear regularly.” Joy definitely gets more love from me than it used to, and it’s in a convenient location, so I do reach for it occasionally. It’s great for church or the office, because if you don’t overspray, it’s quite subtle and ladylike. It’s one of those fragrances that doesn’t jump out at anyone, it just smells very nice. By the same token, if you want your fragrance to make more of an impression, Joy may not be the one to choose that day (or night), unless the parfum has more impact (I haven’t tried that version).
Portia: Joy is so fabulous but rarely gets the spritz, splash ot swipe here. Every so often I get out the Patou box and grab Joy. I’ll wear it and put it back. Then I won’t think of it for months. That doesn’t lessen my love for it but it seems to fit only rarely.
I’m hoping that enjoying wearing it so much today and yesterday that it might inspire me to wear it more often.
4. Who should/could wear Joy?
Portia: Joy needs a certain amount of preparation if you’re not a regular wearer. It’s big, bold and makes a statement. It’s tenacity is also legendary, so you have to be ready to smell of this iconic beauty for at least half a day. Anyone who chooses Joy is choosing to smell of a fragrance that will not be easily available for us to buy when the bottle runs out. So they are wearing something precious and on it’s way to extinction. That alone tells you something of the wearer. Either they are so wealthy that they can stockpile or such a hedonist that wearing it to the dregs and enjoying every second is better than having it forever. No, I check myself. There are other reasons. Wearing it as a memory scent, to mark special occasions, as a lure or any number of wonderful reasons.
Really though, anyone who wants to smell spectacular and relive the joy of wearing Joy by Patou before it’s gone forever.
Old Herbaceous: As always, I say anyone who wants to can wear Joy or any other fragrance! Joy does give off a certain demure, ladylike air, at least in EDT form, but that could be deployed to great effect if the wearer isn’t, in fact, demure, ladylike, or even a lady. For myself, I prefer some of the reissued “Collection Heritage” fragrances created by Thomas Fontaine when he was Jean Patou’s head perfumer, especially Chaldée and L’Heure Attendue.
If you want to experience this legendary fragrance, I recommend getting some soon. Dior’s Joy is a pallid successor at best, but all the Jean Patou fragrances are now out of production, since LVMH bought the brand (to the howls of the faithful) and changed its name to just “Patou”. The fragrances are still widely available online and I’m told that Joy was so popular among ladies of my mother’s generation and even beyond that it is often found at estate sales. In fact, when a FiFi award was given in 2000 to the “perfume of the century”, it was given to Joy and NOT to its competitor No.5. So now really is the time to get yourself this small exemplar of 20th century fashion and creativity. I’ll be keeping my eye out for vintage parfum, since that’s the version that has gotten the most rave reviews (including from Luca Turin, who gave it his rare five-star rating) and that Portia finds so alluring.
Have you experienced Joy? What did you think? Has your opinion changed over time, as mine did?
Welcome to the Friday Perfume Chat Room, perfumistas! I envision this chat room as a weekly drop-in spot online, where readers may ask questions, suggest fragrances, tell others their SOTD, comment on new releases or old favorites, and respond to each other. The perennial theme is fragrance, but we can interpret that broadly. This is meant to be a kind space, so please try not to give or take offense, and let’s all agree to disagree when opinions differ. In fragrance as in life, your mileage may vary! YMMV.
Today is Friday, March 24, and Spring has sprung! We’ve gone in just a couple of days from temps below freezing at night, back to sunny and in the 70s. The pollen is flying everywhere leaving yellow dust in its wake and all over cars. All over everything, actually. Thank goodness for non-drowsy antihistamines!
I still have daffodils, azaleas, and dogwoods in bloom, and one rose bush that has started blooming its head off. In honor of William Morris’ birthday today, NST’s community project is to wear a scent that can be matched with anything to do with him — his art, his designs, his books and poems — whatever. I love William Morris designs, so I matched one of my favorites (actually designed for him by J.H. Dearle) called “Daffodil” with my beloved Ostara, by Penhaligon.
Design for “Daffodil” by JH Dearle for William Morris & Co.; image from the William Morris Gallery.
All the spring scents are jumbled together outside in a charming melange that includes grass, flowers, trees, dirt, and rain. My poor vegetable garden froze solid back in December. I didn’t bother replanting winter vegetables, I just spread more compost so it could “season” until the weather is warm enough to plant again, and the compost is adding to the mix of smells.
Portia and I have decided we will just wait until April to resume our “Notes on Notes” and “Counterpoint” collaborations, since we were both traveling a lot in March. We’ve got some great material to discuss! If you want to suggest 1) fragrance notes; or 2) specific fragrances that you’d like us to tackle, please let us know in the comments!
And for those in the Northern Hemisphere, happy Spring!
Welcome to the Friday Perfume Chat Room, perfumistas! I envision this chat room as a weekly drop-in spot online, where readers may ask questions, suggest fragrances, tell others their SOTD, comment on new releases or old favorites, and respond to each other. The perennial theme is fragrance, but we can interpret that broadly. This is meant to be a kind space, so please try not to give or take offense, and let’s all agree to disagree when opinions differ. In fragrance as in life, your mileage may vary! YMMV.
Today is Friday, March 3, and I am in Barcelona! Love this city. Yes, I have visited some perfumeries, most notably The Perfumery, a true haven for artisan and niche perfumes. I had a lovely visit with its owner, who now sees clients by appointment. And then you get his undivided attention and expertise, for at least an hour! It was great. I tried several brands that were entirely new to me, including the line developed by Fragrantica writer Miguel Matos.
I also visited Perfumeria Regia, also a lovely store but a more standard retail experience. I sampled a couple of brands I hadn’t seen before, but most of their stock, while excellent, is available in the US. I did come out with one discovery set, though!
We’ve had fun revisiting favorite places like Park Guell and seeing some new ones, like the interior of Casa Batllo. And we have eaten very, very well! Do you have any favorite Catalan or Spanish dishes?
Welcome to the Friday Perfume Chat Room, perfumistas! I envision this chat room as a weekly drop-in spot online, where readers may ask questions, suggest fragrances, tell others their SOTD, comment on new releases or old favorites, and respond to each other. The perennial theme is fragrance, but we can interpret that broadly. This is meant to be a kind space, so please try not to give or take offense, and let’s all agree to disagree when opinions differ. In fragrance as in life, your mileage may vary! YMMV.
Today is Friday February 24, and I can’t believe we’re almost at the end of another month! If you didn’t get a chance to read it yet, please check out the most recent collaboration between me and Portia Turbo of Australian Perfume Junkies, a Counterpoint post about Chanel No. 5. We had a lot of fun with it!
Drumroll, please — I’ve committed to retiring as of August 31 this year! I’m very excited to move into the next phase and have more time to explore my many interests and enjoy my family and friends.
Welcome to a new feature that I hope will appear monthly! Portia Turbo of Australian Perfume Junkies and I had so much fun doing “Scent Semantics” with some other fragrance bloggers in 2022 that we decided to launch TWO regular features as a new collaboration in 2023. The first, which we plan to post on the first Monday of each month, is “Notes on Notes“, in which we choose one note and write about it however the spirit moves us; our first Note was oakmoss. This second feature is “Counterpoint“, in which we ask ourselves the same handful of questions about a single fragrance and post our separate thoughts on it, on the third Monday of each month. We’re still experimenting with format, so comments on that are welcome too! This month’s Counterpoint fragrance is Chanel No. 5.
I feel I should explain why there was no Perfume Chat Room post last Friday, as I try to make sure I set up that weekly space for community chit-chat. My father-in-law, whom I loved dearly, died last Monday and his funeral was yesterday. So yes, the last couple of Mondays have been sad ones.
But, as the Carpenters’ lyrics say,
Nice to know somebody loves me Funny, but it seems that it’s the only thing to do Run and find the one who loves me (the one who loves me)
My father-in-law knew how much he was loved, and my husband knows how much I loved his father. He always made me feel that I belonged, right from the start, although I was the first non-Catholic to marry into the family. My FIL, a decorated career military officer, was totally open and direct about his affection for people he loved — he proposed to my MIL on their first date, and he proposed to me on behalf of my then-boyfriend, now husband, the first night I met my future in-laws. He was a dear, dear man, who taught his sons also to be loving, kind men. And while we’re sad to lose him and will miss him, he was in his 90s and had lost his beloved wife of 60 years five years ago. He was clear of mind and loyal of heart until the very end, and he chose not to go back to the hospital when his heart issues worsened. He wanted to be reunited with his beloved, and had the faith that he would be.
It’s funny, because I don’t actually know whether my FIL ever wore Old Spice, but to me he was the quintessential “dad” who would have worn it. Old-fashioned in a nice way. Warm, cozy, and fatherly. Deceptively simple and straightforward, with hidden depths that weren’t demons — just more layers of warmth and sweetness, together with complexities. His funeral Mass was beautiful, and it included the traditional incense, which I found very comforting.
“Now cracks a noble heart. Good-night, sweet prince; And flights of angels sing thee to thy rest. ”
— William Shakespeare
Pope Francis uses incense during Mass in Verano cemetery, Rome (CNS photo/Paul Haring)
The Perfume Chat Room is back! After a brief hiatus for December’s Scented Advent, then my new collaboration with Portia of Australian Perfume Junkies, “Notes on Notes” (first Mondays of the month), I’m ready to chat again and I hope you are too.
So, if you’re new to this blog, welcome to the Friday Perfume Chat Room, perfumistas! I envision this chat room as a weekly drop-in spot online, where readers may ask questions, suggest fragrances, tell others their SOTD, comment on new releases or old favorites, and respond to each other. The perennial theme is fragrance, but we can interpret that broadly. This is meant to be a kind space, so please try not to give or take offense, and let’s all agree to disagree when opinions differ. In fragrance as in life, your mileage may vary! YMMV.
Today is Friday, January 13 (yes, it’s Friday the 13th), and here in the USA we are looking forward to our three-day weekend in honor of Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.’s birthday. This year, the holiday falls on Monday, January 16. I don’t have any special plans other than perhaps a lunch with the other volunteers who take part in a prize program to recognize high school students who make positive contributions to race relations in their schools or communities. I helped launch this program many years ago, and it is now nationwide. We’ve met so many wonderful teenagers who are doing great work. I love it.
Heads up — I spent last weekend visiting one of my closest friends in West Palm Beach, and I was able to go to the Guerlain boutique in The Breakers hotel in Palm Beach. Yes, I came home with a bottle (the “new” Mitsouko). Yes, that means I made it one whole week into 2023 before buying a new fragrance. Yes, I’ll do a separate post with photos!
Are you attempting a no-buy or low-buy for 2023? I am going to try a “low-buy” but I’m not exactly off to a good start, lol. Or do you have any particular fragrances on your 2023 wishlist?
Happy New Year’s Eve, everyone! Undina over at Undina’s Looking Glass has reminded me, with her Saturday Question, that I haven’t yet posted here about “What Went Well” in 2022.
Two of our three young adult children solidified and continued romantic relationships that started in the fall of 2021 and make them very happy. Whatever happens, they’ve had a lovely year, and I love that.
The third young adult child was able to move into her own small apartment, after a happy year of sharing a house with friends, and the apartment is much closer to our home, which makes us very happy. She and her sister (who also lives nearby) still have their own keys to our house and come and go quite often.
I had a long overdue leave from my job this fall and was able to travel to see family, especially the two trips to New Hampshire in 2022 to see my FIL, one of which included all three kids, who hadn’t seen him since 2020.
My leave this fall has shown me that yes, I’m ready to retire, which I will do later this year after the spring semester.
My dear husband and I also began a more structured routine for better fitness and strength, and we’re enjoying it!
Three of us had COVID right around Thanksgiving, but we all recovered quickly and well — and we were all able to quarantine together here in our house.
My list reminds me, again, that what really makes my life go well is when I achieve a balance of happy, healthy family; happy, healthy marriage; maintaining healthy boundaries between my life and my job; and taking better care of myself and my physical health. In many ways, 2022 was a difficult year for me, at least the first three quarters, due to workplace politics and shifts. The leave I took in the fall was long overdue, after two years of doing a LOT of extra COVID-related work for my university employer starting in March 2020, on top of my regular duties which did not lessen. The return to being onsite full-time, with all students onsite, for the 21-22 academic year, was very challenging for everyone, and many valued colleagues left in 2022, leaving jobs vacant with the same workload needing to get done by fewer people. The new boss I acquired, the third in three years (academia is notoriously poorly managed) proved to be much more difficult than I had expected, and mismanaged my staff while I was on leave, leading to more resignations.
But now that 2022 approaches its end, I have a plan in place to retire in 2023, ending my third career on a positive note for my students and colleagues. I’m looking forward to what comes next! Stay tuned for some new collaboration with Portia Turbo of Australian Perfume Junkies and A Bottled Rose, coming soon to a blog near you!
Happy New Year, everyone, and let’s hope that 2023 brings more peace, health, hope, and wellbeing to as many people as possible. Thank you for joining me and other readers here; I love the online perfume community that has been so welcoming and positive! If you drop in periodically but haven’t commented, I encourage you to do that if you wish — the more, the merrier!
Happy Christmas Eve! I never got around to posting yesterday because I was so busy creating the first of several family feasts for last night and the next few days. I love to cook, and I love having our kids and their friends around, so this is a great time of year for me!
For December 23, my Advent SOTD was Guerlain’s Embruns d’Ylang, created by Thierry Wasser and launched in 2019. I like it much more than I expected to! Not that I dislike ylang-ylang, but it’s not high on my list of favorite floral notes. I like it a lot as a supporting character in many beautiful fragrances, but I wouldn’t normally seek out a fragrance where it has the starring role.
According to Fragrantica, the notes included are: top notes, Salt and Bergamot; middle notes, Ylang-Ylang, Cloves and Jasmine Sambac; base notes, Iris, Patchouli and Vanilla. I never know how to identify “salt” as a fragrance accord, except as a sort of mineral smell; and Embruns d’Ylang definitely has that in its opening, with a tangy bergamot. Believe it or not, the combination of salt and a bitter citrus has a long history, though mostly involving grapefruit: “Grapefruit and Salt: The Science Behind This Unlikely Power Couple.”
After the opening, ylang-ylang is the dominant accord, and it is very lovely. Interestingly, although I often think of ylang-ylang as falling on the sweeter end of the yellow flower spectrum, here it doesn’t come across as very sweet. It certainly isn’t cloying at all, and it is a ylang-ylang that would work well for all, truly unisex if that is a concern. I don’t smell cloves at all, though given the above article’s explanation of how our taste sensors can cancel each other out, I wonder if cloves are helping to reduce the sweetness of the ylang-ylang. I do pick up the jasmine sambac, but here it is a supporting player.
The ylang-ylang persists into the drydown and the base, which makes for a very interesting combination of yellow floral, powdery iris, soft warm vanilla, and earthy patchouli. I find it quite unique, and very pleasing. It also lasts on my skin for several hours, including overnight.
Ylang-ylang flowers; image from beezly.com
I find this to be a thoroughly unisex yellow floral fragrance with a unique combination of notes. Its name has a poetic meaning: seafoam of ylang, which takes into account the salt accord. This is different enough that I would suggest trying before you buy it, if you are so inclined, but it is well worth sampling.
Now I have to decide what to wear for Christmas Eve! Truthfully, I have many nice options, so I might have more than one SOTD. Happy Christmas Eve, everyone who celebrates it! Advent officially ends tonight, so I’ll wish you also a very happy Christmas; and to everyone everywhere, a happy, healthy holiday season. Thanks for joining me and other readers here on Serenity Now: Scents and Sensibilities; I look forward to hearing more from you all in 2023!
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